Tuesday, July 14, 2009

WOW! She got it EXACTLY... well, maybe not.

Although PZ Myers already posted about it, I thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.
This woman sums up what a lot of people seem to believe about atheists. Because they know us better than we know ourselves. Apparently.

There are some key factors involved in this thinking by atheists that are not usually published. (Actually, these idiots write about it all the time)

Being the hot topic of the day, any discussion of atheism, should include these 'difficult to admit' points:

Firstly, atheists claim that they themselves are god. They claim they have superior knowledge then* the rest of us by trying to say that they have better knowledge because of their own thinking. They will not acknowledge anyone else to be above them.
I have been an atheist all my life and have never once claimed to be a god or goddess, except in the kitchen and maybe once in the bedroom.** Come to think of it, I may have only used Green Goddess salad dressing in the kitchen, and may have only been called one in the bedroom.

I love PZ's response to this - Personally, I only rank myself as a lesser demon.
*Note, I refrained from correcting her misspellings, but not from making fun of them.
** If you are my father - DON'T READ ANY FURTHER!

Secondly, atheists have been hurt somewhere in their lives, can't understand suffering, and are mad at God — so it is easier to deny there is one.
Um, nope. I'm a generally happy person who has not been hurt any more than anyone else, very happy with how my life has turned out so far, very much in love with my husband, happy that my family is in fairly good health, and happy in my job (except for the potential 20% pay reduction - but at least I still have a job!). I have occasional "down" periods, but those are just part of normal cyclical ups and downs.

I'm not sure what she means by "can't understand suffering." Suffering is a normal part of life. I know many people who suffer or have suffered both physically and emotionally far more than I have, and I know I've been fairly lucky so far. Suffering actually seems to me to be an argument against the existence of any sort of "loving" god. A truly loving and omnipotent god wouldn't allow it, and would actually be an evil god if he/she/it could stop it, and yet still allowed it. However, suffering has to be explained somehow, so it seems to be a big part of the religions of many cultures.

As for being mad at God - how can you be mad at something that doesn't exist? It's like being mad at the Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause or the Loch Ness Monster. I am sometimes mad at religious idiots, but not at their imaginary friend.

Thirdly, atheists are looking for God for the same reason a thief would be looking for a police officer. They don't want to be accountable to a higher being because of the wrong things they do.
I knew someone would finally catch us on that. Bill and I will just have to stop having sex in the street* and robbing banks. We tend not to do illegal things (well, I speed a little sometimes) not because some magic book tells us not to, but because they are either illegal or morally** wrong.

*I actually had someone ask me what stopped me from having sex in the street. That would be...HELLO! cars and a healthy sense of self preservation. Oh, and not only would it be illegal, it would be WRONG! I'm an extremely private person and wouldn't do it even if it was legal.

This same person then went on to accuse me of having sex with my dog. Now I loved Charlie more than any other dog I've ever had (or possibly ever will have), and we had a very, very strong bond, but if I had wanted to do that, I wouldn't have had him NEUTERED, would I?

** Morals have been around far longer than any present day religions, and the basics (such as the taboos against murder and incest, and reciprocity (aka the Golden Rule), are most likely evolved, while many others are learned depending upon the culture in which you live. Many other animals also exhibit morality, and they certainly didn't learn it from a magic book.

Fourthly, atheists forget that when a person goes to a museum and admires a painting, that there was a painter/designer of that art piece. The art piece is absolute evidence of a painter and not caused by random nothingness.

All of the world, stars, animals, plants, oceans, and mountains are absolute proof of a divine intelligent being (beyond our human ability and thinking) who made these things.

Can the atheist make a tree? It is scientifically impossible for bees to fly (laws of physics) and yet they do. It is impossible for our eyes to see and yet they do. What more proof does an atheist need than their own heart pumping in their chest without them commanding their heart to pump each beat in perfect timing each and every second necessary?

Of course things weren't caused by random nothingness (except maybe this woman's brain). Evolution by natural selection is actually the opposite of random, and over millions and millions (sometimes billions) of years only gives the illusion that something was designed.

Complex, image forming eyes may have evolved up to 100 different times, so obviously they are a handy thing to have. Actually, if you look at the physiology of the vertebrate eye, it is not "designed" very well at all - sort of back-to-front, actually - because the light photons have to travel through all the nerves and blood vessels to get to the photoreceptors, which are pointing backward. These nerve cells and blood vessels all come together at the optic nerve, and create a blind spot. This is exactly what you would expect from something evolved, but not purposefully designed. Cephalopod eyes, on the other hand are "designed" correctly. The photoreceptors are pointing toward the light source rather than away, and there is no blind spot, as the nerves are behind the retina rather than in front of it.

Can the theist make a tree? If not, then why should an atheist be able to?
This interesting article
shows it's not scientifically impossible for bees to fly and they in no way contradict the laws of physics. Obviously, SINCE THEY FLY! Duh!

Fifthly, denial is a strong coping mechanism in crisis, but does not serve anyone in the long run. Like an ostrich with its head in the sand, an atheist denies God not because God does not exist—but because the atheist doesn't want God to exist and does not want to see the truth and evidence in front of their eyes.

I would rather believe in God and make sure my life is doing what is acceptable to this Superior Being than to not believe in God and find out I will be accountable to this God for everything I've done after I die. With 84% of the world's population believing in the existence of God, I think the majority rules in this case.
Yeah, actually there is no evidence of a god. If there were, I would believe, but nobody's come up with anything at all convincing or that could only have a supernatural explanation yet. Gods were invented by man to explain the unexplainable. Over the last 1000 years or so, we've been slowly chipping away at things that previously could only be attributed to a god until we will eventually understand every one.

Pascal's wager (better to believe than not just in case there is a god and he gets mad at you) has been done to death. An omniscient god would be able to tell you were only believing in him because you were afraid not to. I would ask her how she knows for sure she's worshiping the correct god? There are so many. What if the Hindus or followers of Shinto are actually right? Maybe the ancient Greeks were. What if she's following the wrong type of Christianity? There are numerous Christian sects. Maybe the Amish or the Mormons are right.

At one time far more than 84% of the world's population believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Did majority rule make that correct? Up until the latter part of the last century, most people believed that the continents were static and had always been in their present positions. Did majority rule make that correct? And 84% may believe in gods, but does she believe that Mohammad was the true prophet and flew up to heaven on a winged horse? I doubt it. And to which version of Christianity (I'm assuming she's one of the many Christian sects) does she adhere? There were numerous Ecumenical councils where church leaders got together and decided what biblical canon to keep and what to throw out.


Steph said...

You know, I happen to believe that people who believe you can only be a "good" person if you're afraid of some kind of afterdeath punishment scare the bejeebers out of me.

For me, I choose to do the right thing because it's right, not because I'm scared God will smite my ass (now or later) if I don't. So I always wonder about people who *don't see it that way.

At any rate, I'm glad you posted this 'cause I pretty much thought atheists were people who didn't believe in God. I feel all enlightened now that I know y'all are sinning heathens who have never suffered, except the time when you were hurt and got pissed at God about it.

It's people like that who make me want to deny my own faith. Assclowns.

artificialhabitat said...

A few points of information, just to clear things up, since your criticism of this woman seems a little unfair:

1) I do, in fact, claim that I am God. Often.
2) I do have better knowledge because of my own thinking.
3) No one else is above me
4) I have been hurt somewhere in my life (just last week I got a wood splinter under my fingernail)
5) Despite only being an atheist because of hurt and suffering, I don't actually understand suffering.
6) Yes, I am clearly very angry with God, even though (given point 1 above) I apparently believe that I am God. I regularly deny my own existence when I get angry with myself. Which is often. I'm not actually writing this, you know.
7) I look for God because I don't want to be accountable to a higher power. Although, of course, I believe that I am that higher power, so presumably I can just let myself off with a warning. Also there's little point in my trying to do bad things - I always end up catching myself doing them, no matter how careful I am.
8) When visiting art galleries and museums, I often have to be reminded that art was made by artists, given that I tend to assume that everything is always completely random.
9) Reckon I could make a tree, actually. After all, I do believe that I am God. I only never do things like making trees, stars, and shit like that because I don't feel like it.
10) Obviously bees can't fly - they use magic to defy gravity.
11) "denial is a strong coping mechanism": no it isn't.
12) I deny God because I believe that I am God, and don't want myself to exist, lest I punish myself for not living according to my own rules.
13) Obviously, if 50.00000001% or more of the world's population believe that God exists, then they are right. I think you'll find that over 75% of people believe that truth is determined by simple democratic majority*.

Hope this helps

*actually I made that up. Wouldn't be surprised, though

Laurie said...

Steph - Those people scare the bejeebers out of me, too. If fear of some supernatural being is the only thing that's keeping them from going around killing, raping, etc., then I fervently hope they keep believing.

And I'm glad to enlighten you about our sinning heathenness and the fact that we ARE god (see comment below yours).

Andrew - I saw your tweet about the ginormous splinter. So there really is some wood left in the New Forest! You managed to find at least a centimeter of it.

I got to 11 and I think tea actually went up into my sinuses. Luckily, tea has all those anti-oxidants, so it was probably a good thing. Not so sure about the milk, however. #thingspeoplewhodonttwitterwontunderstand

Lesley said...

GOD. (HAHA!) People like this broad make me so angry. I do believe in God, but I also believe in a person's right NOT to believe (Okay, borderline too many believes in one sentence) and not to be labeled damaged or misguided in any way because they don't. Why do so many people find the need to make something "wrong" with people who think differently than they do? "Oh, I see. You're different so logically this means you're damaged in some way or hurt in some way, POOR YOU." Sad and pathetically short-sighted. People like this give religion a bad name. Hell. They give HUMANITY a bad name.

I love this rebuttal. It's excellently reasoned and written!!

P.S. to artificialhabitat: I knew bees were magic. KNEW IT!

Brother Phil said...